18 comments on “Chaos in Idomene: The Skopians Are Constructing Fences – Incidents By Illegal Immigrants

  1. What is sometimes a little upsetting is that many usually decent Greek Nationalists make this Macedonia naming issue such an important issue. Technically, there are two regions which are Macedonia. There is Greek Macedonia with the capital in Thessaloniki. And there is Slavic Macedonia with the capital in Skopje. Yeah, I know that Macedonia was originally Greek. But then everything changed in the early Middle Ages around 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th centuries, when Germanic and Slavic tribes crossed the borders of the Roman Empire and migrated to various regions. Most Greeks back then simultaneously saw themselves as Romans. A lot of Slavs (Serbs, Bulgarians) and Vlachs (Romanians) migrated to the Macedonia region of the Eastern Roman Empire. They had converted to Orthodox Christianity and got along with the local Greek population. Then there was another large change when the Ottomans conquered Macedonia and changed it’s demographics even more substantially than the migrations of Slavs and Vlachs to the area. Also, it is important to note that the term Macedonia was a geographical expression in the XIX century, which meant to include modern Greek Macedonia, Slavic Vardar Macedonia and Bulgarian Pirin Macedonia. In the XIX century, various European ethnographers and experts travelled in the Macedonia Region, which at that time was considered by them as a continuous geographic area of the Salonika and Manastir Provinces of the Ottoman Empire. They tried to count and estimate the population of this large geographic region. The various French, German, Russian, Italian and Austro-Hungarian ethnographers and demographic experts studied at various times the ethnic composition of the larger Macedonia region, and they discovered a large Slavic-speaking population in northern Macedonia and they recorded a large Greek population in southern Macedonia. In some of their demographic and ethnographic studies the Slavic Bulgarian-speaking population exceeded somewhat the Greek-speaking population of the Macedonia Region in the years 1877-1912. But it depends on the particular ethnographic study of that time. Macedonia at that time was a complex multiethnic and large geographic region.

    • These Slavs you speak of used to be called what they were, Bulgarians. The never used the term “Macedonian” to describe themselves until the last century.

      Even Geographically speaking, the area of Skopje was never even Geographically part of Macedonia ever, this area was called Vardar. Only a very small area of this state was part of the geographic Macedonia. In the south near what they now call “Bitola”.

      Why would Greeks defending the theft of their history and name upset you? Especially when the country in question just was constructed out of nowhere?

      Why do you suppose these people who now call themselves “Macedonian” speak perfect Bulgarian and share national heroes with Bulgaria?

      • Well, yeah, I was reading more on the issue. Skopje was not geographically part of Macedonia. That is true. But I read that Manastir (or Bitola it is now called) was. In the XIX century, the geographic area of Macedonia was referred to as the combination Manastir and Salonica Provinces of the Ottoman Empire. And the borders of those provinces did not match current boundaries and included Greek Macedonia and a part of Slavic Macedonia. The Slavs in that area were Bulgarian, because they belonged to Bulgarian Orthodox Exarchate. European experts in XIX century had a different view on what is the size and borders of Macedonia Region though. But even in the Greek Macedonia, in places such as Salonica there were some people speaking Slavic languages. Plus, there were plenty of Greeks living in Manastir and there were Slavic speakers living in Florina and Kilkis at that time. One can even find pictures of Bulgarian or Serbian cultural institutions and schools of language in Salonica and some other Macedonian towns. There was a Bulgarian language school founded in Thessaloniki in 1871, and a Men’s High School as well in 1880. At that time, the Russian Tsarist Government gave funding to Bulgarian and Serbian cultural institutions in the Balkans because of Slavophile ideology prominent at that time. Back then the region was ethnically mixed and complex, so it was hard to tell who was a Macedonian and who was not in many places. Probably modern Macedonia naming issue is a result of this confusion.

      • No it is not a result of this confusion. It is a very recent phenomenon. They aren’t “Mystery Slavs” before the Balkan wars there was some Bulgarians in Thessaloniki and Macedonia was mixed by villages and towns. The fact that these people lived in Macedonian land, does not make them any more Macedonian than a nigger born and raised in Paris is “French”.

        Not even all Greeks living in Macedonia are Macedonian, some come from Asia Minor or Pontos and settled there later. The only real Macedonians are the Greek populations who lived in the area dating back into byzantium and the ancient times. Those are the only true Macedonians.

        Your logic is flawed, because you would not apply this to any other case if your a nationalist would you? Since when do people magically become something they are not simply by living in a place? Hong Kong is loaded with Brits and Thai people and other races, would you say they become ethnic Chinese?

      • As to your example about the British people in Hong Kong, those British built up and developed that city since 1841 and made it what it is now today. Because the British people inhabited Hong Kong for so long and contributed greatly to it’s development, they could be considered an indigenous regional people (Hong Kong did not exist before the British built it) but of course not ethnically Chinese. The negro in Paris does not contribute to French development and economy and he did not develop Paris. Also that negro is a child of recent immigrants and his family has not lived there for centuries.

        The issue of Macedonia is a somewhat special case and much more complicated. Greeks lost their national sovereignty in the 15th century when the House of Osman conquered the Balkans and many ethnic identities were shattered and regions were remade and identities transformed. At the same time British and French people had maintained their national sovereignty and could grow and expand elsewhere and protect their identity and culture. From the 15th century to the 19th century, the Ottoman Empire ruled the area and they did not keep track of ethnicity. Ottoman Empire done it’s demographic statistics by religious sect. Being a Greek became associated with being a member of the Greek Orthodox Church and Patriarchate of Constantinople. Any Orthodox Christian was referred to as Rum (Roman) by the Ottoman authorities. Those Slavic people in the area were Orthodox Christians mostly and they were seen the same as the Greeks by the Ottomans. The Slavs in Macedonia lived in the region for several centuries, depending on the historical source, some since the early Middle Ages, and some migrated during the centuries of Ottoman domination. And they are white and orthodox christian too. They share many things in common with the Greeks. There is also the complication with the Vallahades, a group of Greek Macedonians, which was converted to Sunni Islam and who gradually assimilated into Turks. Ethnically those Vallahades were Greeks and Macedonians, but they were becoming Turks by culture and religion.

        Simply as an American, I don’t see a reason for Greeks to despise the Bulgarian or the Serb in Skopje or Bitola for calling himself a Macedonian. You guys are all white and Balkan basically. They are culturally and religiously similar to Greeks. You see Americans, Australians, New Zealanders, Canadians are by-products of the British Empire and it’s colonization projects. White Americans are honestly speaking creations of colonization and settlement of new lands and are a mixture of British, Irish, German, French, Italian and other kinds of settlers. I don’t see clear reason for conflict to exist between very racially and culturally similar peoples.

      • You spend a lot of time dodging the issue, and now you are resorting to lying. Greeks and Slavs, especially Bulgarians are very different in culture and temperment, despite living in close proximity. You wrote all that about hong kong and development, when you know damn well what I mean. We are talking about indigenous people vs non indigenous. Someone trying to falsify history. Please refrain from being dishonest here. Why did you avoid answering the other questions?

        Why would Greeks defending the theft of their history and name upset you? Especially when the country in question just was constructed out of nowhere?

        Why do you suppose these people who now call themselves “Macedonian” speak perfect Bulgarian and share national heroes with Bulgaria?

      • I think you are right then that the Greek Macedonians are indigenous to the region. They did inhabited the region since the time before birth of Jesus Christ. But many things changed since then in the Middle Ages and in the Ottoman times, that is what I was trying to say. Greeks are attempting to defend the name of Macedonia and the fact that name belonged historically to them and that is understandable. However the people in Skopje (they can be Serbs or Bulgarians) may not necessarily be a direct enemy of Greece. As far as I know, they have no official territorial claims on any part of Greek land. Those Bulgarians in Skopje are very fearful of Albanians and Islamic Extremism than they are of Greeks. They have not fought any war against Greece in recent times. Near Skopje their police and army frequently clashed with Albanian UCK terrorists. UCK terrorists do have territorial claims on Greece.

      • Perhaps you should really do your research more. These people are Bulgarians who have a complex, they don’t want to admit they are Bulgarians, yet they try to claim Bulgaria’s national heroes and re brand them as “Macedonian”. Then further into history they want to claim Greek Heroes like Alexander. On top of that, they have nationalists who do have territorial claims to Greece, in fact they want to make Thessaloniki their capital, they call it “Solun”. If you look it up they have diaspora groups claiming just this, claiming Greeks “Stole their land”. Most Greeks, do not consider them a legitimate threat since like you said they have already 40% Albanians since the country was formed. The reason why they don’t want to be associated with Bulgarians, is because Bulgaria is known as a cold, desolate Balkan country filled with Organized Crime and Prostitutes, a post communist wasteland. This is why they want to latch on to the Greek name of Macedonia because it comes with more prestige than being a Bulgarian. The problem for Greek-Macedonians is that now, these Skopians, these Bulgarians with a complex have dragged the name of Macedonian into the mud already. Because you see, FYROM is identicle to Bulgaria in every way, a desolate post-communist wasteland known for nothing but cheap prostitutes and money laundering, scams etc.

        Traveling Europe when you ask a European now about Macedonians, they no longer think of Greece or Alexander the Great or a small regional Greek tribe of today that has morals, they think of these 5 euro hookers and guys in Adidas track suits speaking their Bulgarian oooga oooga language now who go around claiming to be “Macedonian”. This is the reason why so many Greeks are angry about this. Had they just called themselves what they actually were, or at least came up with some other Slav name for themselves, like “Vardarskis” or whatever, we would not have any reason to be in conflict with them. But they decided to ally with the US, and NATO and Turkey.

        How would you like it if you had your own history and culture, and then within a decade, its all dragged into the mud, there are prostitutes giving blowjobs all over europe using the name of your people falsely, and when the john asks him where she is from she says “I’m from Macedonia”. That would piss you off too.

      • Well, Greece is also unfortunately becoming poor and broke these days and many people consider Greece a “failed bankrupt state” on Facebook and Twitter, and so making fun of other European nations for their problems might not be very wise, because many European countries are becoming wastelands and failed states too. Spain and Italy are also earning a bad reputation of their own for example. I don’t believe that the FYROM army and police is any serious threat to Greece, and it would be impossible for them to bother original Greek Macedonia, they are always preoccupied with Albanians. There are more Greeks in Macedonia than the population of this very relatively small weak strange country.

        Also, honestly it is totally stupid and crazy for the Skopje Slavs or FYROMians to align themselves with USA, NATO and Turkey, because it is against their own self-interest. USA government and NATO supported the UCK Albanian terrorist forces in Kosovo in 1999, and later UCK terrorists spilled over into FYROM and tried to take over a huge section of that country in 2001. The FYROM Army and Police repelled the albanian muslim terrorist attacks and surrounded them in a town. In the village of Aracinovo in 2001 the NATO forces intervened and prevented the FYROM army and police from completely destroying the UCK terrorists, they evacuated these terrorists to safety. Which means, NATO openly sided with the islamist albanians. At least those Slavic Bulgarian soldiers and policemen have to be respected for putting up a fight against albanian islamist terrorists. Albanians form about 22-25% of the population there by census data. But they are very violent and aggressive. In 2015, there were massive clashes between FYROM police and UCK Albanian gangs again in the town of Kumanovo. So this conflict may blow up any time. And USA government would most likely support muslim albanians.

      • Have you ever been to Bulgaria? I am not making fun. What I stated was completely serious. You as an American think I’m talking about only money or economic status, I’m not. We are talking about culture and morality of these people. Then again, you also think Greeks are Similar to other “Balkan” peoples. It seems like you have not traveled much.

        Greeks culturally have more in common with Italians and to a lesser extent the Spanish than they do with Slavs. Despite the fact that Greeks are Orthodox and Italians are Catholic. The reason for this is that racially/culturally the connection between Greece and Italy, particularly southern Italy goes back thousands of years, back when Slavs were still completely unknown. There are a lot of poor countries in Europe, but not all of them act like Bulgarians.

  2. Skopians have no history. The Turks are building fake replicas of Alexander the Great monuments for the skopians museum.

  3. I know that you Greeks when mention Macedonia think of the region around Thessaloniki, but at least use the international name, FYROM, because Skopians means who live at the capital, just like e don’t call all Greeks Athenians.

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